Wed night Fun Races (2021)

[Ricknau]

Rick - you *are* aware of the Liveracers livetiming system, yes?

Only vaguely. I've clicked a link occasionally to see a race result but didn't realize it logged sporadic activity. Live and learn. Thanks.

I think I've got a sub 1:20 in me... it's just not surrendering easily!

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

Only vaguely. I've clicked a link occasionally to see a race result but didn't realize it logged sporadic activity. Live and learn. Thanks.

I think I've got a sub 1:20 in me... it's just not surrendering easily!

Also shows drivers live on the track - easiest way to see if anyone is on at any point in time.

I suspect 1:20ish is a perfectly good race time. With luck, it might rubber in but Deecee seems to think the official s397 tracks are relatively poor for this.

[Beng Bandrover]

I had fun with the Datsun! Sorry that I had to leave after the 3th race.

First race had some good fights.
Second one went wrong for me because my FFB was gone. (Apparently it is a know issue, because Rf2 has a reset FFB function for which you can bind a key, although looking for the 'B' on your keyboard in a half dark room, while trying to take the Tarzanbocht (turn 1) is not the best way to defend a position )
Third race was really fun. Had good and fair fights with Myles almost all race long ending in a close finish!
But... what happened with Ed on the straight??

Hope to join next week again.
Thx

[Ricknau]

Bummer Beng. I had technical problems too. Lost my internet connection soon after you left. Got it back but then lost it again in the next race. I have no idea the cause. Hope it doesn't become a trend.

Have to say I'm not a fan of this Datsun. The handling is fine. It's fun to toss around and I'm close to being competitive with you fast guys. But that clutch slip is a real fun-killer for me. I found it really aggravating to push myself to my absolute limit, barely keeping up, just to have that stinking clutch slip and lose one or two positions when applying power out of a corner. I practiced enough to be familiar with it and thought I had a handle on it. But apparently not in heat of battle.

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

Thanks for coming, Beng and Rick.

Yes, you definitely need a FFB Reset key mapped - I often get the drop out when jumping back to the pits in practice or Qualy - can’t recall losing it mid-race though. I’m fortunate in that I’ve got a button box in easy reach - might be worth mapping something really easy to find (space bar?) if you’ve no spare wheel buttons and no button box…

The clutch slip is found on loads of historic rf2 cars - including one of my all time favourites (the Howston G4/G6). It caught me out once or twice last night but I kinda agree with Ed that it adds a bit to these racers in terms of realism - ‘missing a gear’ is no longer a thing with sequential boxes. Takes a bit of practice- but it could be worse - some car models require proper rev-matching for gear changes from what I recall….!


The good/bad news is that the plan for next week is to try the Datsun vs the Toyota Celica at Cadwell - final decision will be made early weekend at the latest but the server is up now. I’ll probably turn off mechanical failures as the fragile Celica engine will provide additional annoyance to those that dislike the clutch - personally, I think it handles in a more accessible way though.

[Ricknau]

Myles, what's your trick to recovering from clutch slip? I thought easing off and reapplying of the throttle would do it. That didn't work every time. Also tried up-shifting. Do you have to get a perfect rev match? Also, it seems like it happened more often after a few laps. Is it related to temp and is clutch temp even modeled?

[deecee52]

Myles, what's your trick to recovering from clutch slip? I thought easing off and reapplying of the throttle would do it. That didn't work every time. Also tried up-shifting. Do you have to get a perfect rev match? Also, it seems like it happened more often after a few laps. Is it related to temp and is clutch temp even modeled?

For me its a lazy right foot not lifting fully , to combat this i introduced a 10% deadzone on the throttle pedal . I dont think it gets worse with laps i think the heat of battle makes you forget to lift quick enough

[deecee52]

A little info on the Toyota , the modder got his plus and minus mixed up , when you raise the gearing you actually lower it

[Beng Bandrover]

For me its a lazy right foot not lifting fully , to combat this i introduced a 10% deadzone on the throttle pedal . I dont think it gets worse with laps i think the heat of battle makes you forget to lift quick enough

That is exactly what it is. I know it is annoying, but taking care of lifting helps. Deadzone on the throttle is an interesting tought...

I did the Japan Challenge last year with ODS. This competition was open for all Japanese 70s cars available in Rf2 (including the Toyota), but it turned out that the Datsun 110 was the ultimate choice for almost everyone...

The good thing is that it gives good close racing on suitable tracks. The tracks ODS used were:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Hampton Downs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sachsenring[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Silverstone national[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Atlanta Motorsport[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ahvenisto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pukekohe[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[Beng Bandrover]

Thanks for coming, Beng and Rick.

Yes, you definitely need a FFB Reset key mapped - I often get the drop out when jumping back to the pits in practice or Qualy - can’t recall losing it mid-race though. I’m fortunate in that I’ve got a button box in easy reach - might be worth mapping something really easy to find (space bar?) if you’ve no spare wheel buttons and no button box…

The clutch slip is found on loads of historic rf2 cars - including one of my all time favourites (the Howston G4/G6). It caught me out once or twice last night but I kinda agree with Ed that it adds a bit to these racers in terms of realism - ‘missing a gear’ is no longer a thing with sequential boxes. Takes a bit of practice- but it could be worse - some car models require proper rev-matching for gear changes from what I recall….!


The good/bad news is that the plan for next week is to try the Datsun vs the Toyota Celica at Cadwell - final decision will be made early weekend at the latest but the server is up now. I’ll probably turn off mechanical failures as the fragile Celica engine will provide additional annoyance to those that dislike the clutch - personally, I think it handles in a more accessible way though.

I guess I lost FFB already before the start, but noticed it while entering turn 1....
I might consider another key indeed.

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

Myles, what's your trick to recovering from clutch slip? I thought easing off and reapplying of the throttle would do it. That didn't work every time. Also tried up-shifting. Do you have to get a perfect rev match? Also, it seems like it happened more often after a few laps. Is it related to temp and is clutch temp even modeled?

I seem to remember that clutch temp isn’t used as a friction modifier (although it might be reported as a value) but I’m not 100% on that.

I think (can check Motec to be sure) that I effectively lift completely… Actually, I *will* check Motec to see what the difference is (in timing and lift) for good and bad changes and report back. I believe Ed still uses an H-pattern (which can make the timing a bit more natural from experience) but I use flappy-paddles (which probably makes timing more consistent for me).

[Petrolhead]

May I suggest, any new cars or tracks are put into the packages folder Myles, save faffing about trying figure out what missing when you cant join the server

[Petrolhead]

Myles, what's your trick to recovering from clutch slip? I thought easing off and reapplying of the throttle would do it. That didn't work every time. Also tried up-shifting. Do you have to get a perfect rev match? Also, it seems like it happened more often after a few laps. Is it related to temp and is clutch temp even modeled?

I am having the same problem. Is this something inherent with the car or a moddingf problem

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

May I suggest, any new cars or tracks are put into the packages folder Myles, save faffing about trying figure out what missing when you cant join the server

I always do... I only put links in the second post in the vain hope that the SR4L bandwidth won’t be abused. If any files fail to work (sometimes the version on the server is mismatched to the one I actually build the mods with - tedious to explain but it happens…) - let me know

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

Ok - Motec.

I am having the same problem. Is this something inherent with the car or a moddingf problem

There’s nothing wrong except with your brain-to-foot interface…

I’ve dug into Motec. These graph excerpts show throttle position (green) and gear (blue) against time (speed is also there but not part of this discussion). Note that the horizontal scale (time) isn’t always the same as I did this quickly.

First image is a ‘good’ upshift. It shows I lift 100% (might not be necessary, but it’s what the data says I do) almost in sync with the tug on the gear paddle.

   

I’ve made Slicker shifts with less zero time, but anyway…

Next up is a mis-shift requiring a second lift:

   
Note that I do t seem to have needed a full lift to re-engage the gear.

finally, for completeness - here‘s a sequence of downshifts with manual blips:

   
Interestingly (I wouldn’t have guessed myself) I lift the brake (yellow-green graph that is labelled Steered Angle…!) just as I blip the throttle… It also looks as if I initiate the blip *before* pulling the downshift….

[Petrolhead]

Loaded up the toyota and selected drive. The track looked washed out

   


So, out of interest tried another car, GT3 911

   

Am curious as why this would be?

[Beng Bandrover]

Loaded up the toyota and selected drive. The track looked washed out




So, out of interest tried another car, GT3 911



Am curious as why this would be?

My thoughts (totally guessing): DX11 support? (Toyota probably does not DX11 graphics)?

[Petrolhead]

My thoughts (totally guessing): DX11 support? (Toyota probably does not DX11 graphics)?

May well be the reason

[Petrolhead]

I always do... I only put links in the second post in the vain hope that the SR4L bandwidth won’t be abused. If any files fail to work (sometimes the version on the server is mismatched to the one I actually build the mods with - tedious to explain but it happens…) - let me know

I would not thought, with the number of people who access that server, bandwidth would be a problem. For me I simply checked the Mod Mgr and which told me it was the cars that were missing so went to the RF2 Workshop and got them. However for the less experienced, they would try to join, it fails and they give up. I would have thought we want to encourage as many people as poss to join?

[Beng Bandrover]

Ok - Motec.


There’s nothing wrong except with your brain-to-foot interface…

I’ve dug into Motec. These graph excerpts show throttle position (green) and gear (blue) against time (speed is also there but not part of this discussion). Note that the horizontal scale (time) isn’t always the same as I did this quickly.

First image is a ‘good’ upshift. It shows I lift 100% (might not be necessary, but it’s what the data says I do) almost in sync with the tug on the gear paddle.



I’ve made Slicker shifts with less zero time, but anyway…

Next up is a mis-shift requiring a second lift:


Note that I do t seem to have needed a full lift to re-engage the gear.

finally, for completeness - here‘s a sequence of downshifts with manual blips:


Interestingly (I wouldn’t have guessed myself) I lift the brake (yellow-green graph that is labelled Steered Angle…!) just as I blip the throttle… It also looks as if I initiate the blip *before* pulling the downshift….

Then again, the Datsun is not a very sophisticated car anyway. So it adds to the experience of driving these crazy 70s cars. It appears to ask for just an extra skill, just like double clutching in cars with crash gearboxes of preselector-gearboxes...
Try to drive 30s sportscars (real not virtual) and it takes some time to get used to these quirky old things. In that period of time lots of cars had even throttle and brake pedals different (throttle in the middle and brake to the right). In the end you love it.... (untill you have to make an emergengy stop)